[palmat]

From what I've seen on this forum lately there is a lot of talk regarding shipping prices and record prices. Personally I got back into the soundtrack about a year ago via DW records releases and as I'm building a pretty decent collection, I'm beginning to ponder the sums of money I put into it. Since many releases are limited the prices are sometimes hefty compared to "regular" pop and rock releases, and it seems more and more players are getting in on the soundtrack reissue game. I just got my A Field In England vinyl and yesterday I read about the imminent drop of DOTD from Waxworks followed by Rosemary's Baby. And the list of releases goes on and on which makes me excited but also a bit worried when it comes to money. So what do you guys think about the whole "how much is a soundtrack release worth". I know it varies from release to release and that you "can't put a price on art" but in general how much do you think a vinyl soundtrack is worth?

[ghostfires]

I'm beginning to feel the same way. My vinyl collection has doubled in just one year. I try to keep up - I'm not all about collecting to collect, I typically just get one edition of any particular release (unless I just really love a couple of variations, like the DW Maniac)...but goddamn are these records becoming more and more expensive with each release.

I also buy metal vinyl too - and the variations have jumped into ridiculous territory now. Some black metal/doom metal labels are selling black vinyl for somewhere around $18-25, with variations going from $30-50. That is RIDICULOUS!

At times - we as the general music consumer have to feel like we're being ripped in different places. I'm not pointing fingers at any labels - just stating that we music consumers might need to stop and take a look around for a minute.

I've definitely reached a point to where I have to slow down, and if that means missing things...oh well. We can only be stretched so far. I'm not complaining to receive sympathy or anything along those lines...I guess my complaint is geared more towards a warning to all these labels popping up and trying to capitalize on the rebirth of vinyl....don't go too far over the cliff with your packaging and pricing, eventually you'll lose really good customers like me. I started with DW at the very beginning - buying everything released on DW. The same with Mondo, Italians Do It Better, Numero Group, Cineploit, Ghost Box, Rise Above Records, and more. I am a very loyal consumer when it comes to music...but goddamn, it's just getting to be too much. The thrill of the search, the rarity game, the variations...all that seems to have really overridden the original priority...to just experience really great music on the best format.

[seb]

I normally don't get involved in such discussions, but it's been popping up a lot lately.

This is in no way intended as a defense... just a small bit of insight from a label's point of view.
You asked, I answer.

NOTE : I can't and will not speak for the other labels, this is strictly my point of view coming from my expertise in almost 15 years in the industry.

First of all, and this is important. It's about soundtracks... it's different from pop, rock,...
The costs are higher. Why? Read on...

This is what makes a soundtrack release expensive:

1) License cost: the fee for each record you have to pay to the label or person who owns the master/rights/...

2) License fee for using the name of the movie/artworks/... this is what makes it different from a non-soundtrack release. Unlike only having to deal with a label-composer you also have to deal with a movie company. 'Free' is not in their vocabulary, and why should they?

3) Mechanicals : the royalties you have to pay to the person who composed the material

4) Pressing : good vinyl and jackets are EXPENSIVE. I can't stress this enough, if you use good materials it costs tons. All the add ons and specials drive up the price even more.
Cd's are cheaper, Mp3's are cheapest.

5) Layout, artists and graphic design. If you want the best, you pay for it.

6) All the small things that together end up costing an arm and a leg : Transport, Promo,...

... the shipping cost is another bitch. Any record seller/buyer's worst enemy.

I'm not going into cost details, but let's say that sometimes the total cost above is that of a small car.
The pricing I set my releases to is around 20$ mail-order ... don't forget we only get that amount for a small part of the pressing, most goes at half the price to record stores. All in all, I think it's a fair price for the quality you get.

Is there a way for me to lower the price? Yes:

* Use cheap lowest gram vinyl
* Sloppy lowest gram jackets
* No inserts or add ons.
* Only do downloads or cd's.

Would there be as much interest in my releases? Don't think so.

... on the limited issue : we don't always get to choose how much we press. Sometimes we only get permission to release 500-1000-2000 copies. And with soundtracks being popular right now, such quantities go fast.

Hope this has answered some questions, I feel your pain money wise
But all in all. You are getting a good product for your hard earned cash. There is always some cheap CD or download going around for those who can't/won't spend the cash on the vinyl.

P.S. labels repressing their low cost back catalog on cheap eastern european vinyl in high quantities (but marking it as limited) and selling it at the same prices as us. Yes: you are being totally ripped off.

[monsterworship]

Re: One Way Static . thanks for the very insightful reply!
As a vinyl toy maker, the points you make parallel my business as well. License fees and high quality goods cost a lot.

As a collector I understand that these are luxury goods, so its up to me to set a limitation on what I can afford and not live beyond my means ("the American dream"). It sucks to miss out on things, but I am willing to wait around to pick it up at a later time (Weeks, months, years) when I can afford it.

The dilemma with making things is that we need to cover expenses and production costs, so we may need to make more runs in various colors and things to meet that goal. I can see the reasoning behind the various color pressings in vinyl as the collector types will be more inclined to buy multiple versions of something to get the variants.

Also understand that any business needs to be able make a profit to continue to make the things that you love, but it is up to the consumer to weed out all of the fakes capitalizing/exploiting us by not purchasing their goods.
This applies to flippers as well, just stop giving them reasons to buy up things, by not paying their ridiculous prices, and they eventually they will move on to something else, and will dump their goods at or below cost.

It's amazing how much we collectors stress out about things that are supposed to be for our entertainment in the first place.

[Re-animated Cat]

Well said everyone.

I agree with you about the flippers, but unfortunately there's another side to this. More often than not, specialist record labels need to sell out their pressing run quickly in order to recoup their costs. Whether you like it or not, both 'flippers' and hardcore collectors play an important part in this. Flippers probably account for far more of the initial sales than any label is willing to admit. In a difficult market, a sale is a sale. Though I suppose it depends on the projected demand of each particular release. Sometimes a label can safely limit copies to one per customer, at other times I'm sure they're just happy to have all the copies sold and their costs recovered. Labels are businesses, after all.

[Re-animated Cat]

Also, as far as I'm concerned, I'm never too bothered about the additional posters/prints/lithos. I'd far rather have the money spent on higher quality vinyl stock, better mastering and THEN the outer sleeve. I think sometimes we collectors forget that it should always be about the SOUND QUALITY, first and foremost. Prints etc can always be sold separately to those who want them.

[albatard]

"It’s amazing how much we collectors stress out about things that are supposed to be for our entertainment in the first place." had the same reflection while i was worrying about getting DW releases for RSD 2012 (those titles were not available in France). How dumb is that??

[siforster]

I mentioned something along these lines the other day when I did a thing about DWRC's The Fog issue. I have absolutely no problem forking out over the norm for something when the end product is something worth spending over the norm on. Never let it be said that I am not the Master Of Stating The Bleeding Obvious.

I think the "trouble" with vinyl pricing lies with standard-issue releases. Although vinyl sales are on the rise, they're still seen as a niche for collectors and audiophiles, so - for example - heavyweight pressings are presented as a normal thing when this doesn't always need to be the case. And, as has been said elsewhere here on the matter, a badly-mastered/sequenced/pressed record will sound crap no matter how heavy it is.
If non-bespoke labels (ie, your new rock/pop etc stuff) want vinyl to flourish, then maybe they should look at what they're pressing and make adjustments - that's not to say that they should just put out crap, but put out stuff to a similar standard that they apply to their CDs or downloads, for a similar price. If they then want to issue better quality editions for the audiophile market, then there's a market there as well: the last Queens Of The Stone Age album was released in a variety of increasingly posh formats, from 2x150g 33rpm to 2x180g 45rpm with added artpages, and that worked quite well. Sadly, most labels (talking majors here) would rather we pay once more for new, expensive vinyl of a CD we already own to replace the vinyl we probably still have in the loft...

I guess that the "expected" length of albums nowadays is such that there are more doubles required, which does push the price up and that's fine. What got me this week was that I was looking to preorder the new Okkervil River album which is a double so was expecting to pay a tad more, but UK stores have this for around £30! So I ordered from the label in the US for $20, plus $18 postage. I understand the nature of markups etc, but it's becoming a trend where record vendors (be they labels, distributors or stores) are using the value of bespoke, high quality, desirable items to apply to stuff that's not quite so good. I fear I lost my own point long ago, so I'll shut up now

[bitewerks]

I've been collecting records long enough that if I miss out on something or that I feel the price is too high then it's not a big deal. I can listen to the music online or I'll pay a bit more later on if I feel I really, really need it.

There's just so much out there that sacrifices & choices have to be made so if the excuse is to save $4 here and $3 there, then that's what I do.

I hope that DW, One-Static, & Waxwork will re-press titles as long as there is a demand for them.

[bitewerks]

I'd be curious to know why the right's owner of a soundtrack would limit the number of the pressing? Wouldn't more that's pressed mean more money they'll be paid?

[seb]

The right's owner is not always a person. More than often it's another label. They don't want to give it 'out of their hands' too much. Sometimes they use you as a test and do a repress on the format themselves if it goes well.

Majors gave a lot of licenses for vinyl 10 years ago. Now they are doing it themselves or limit those licenses to a few thousand copies. This to keep their options with format open.

[Re-animated Cat]

@One Way Static: I'm curious about how distribution works, you didn't mention it in your list before. Do you also have to pay an outright fee to the distributor, or is the agreement based on them receiving the records at a reduced (wholesale) cost?

[seb]

I can't go in specifics for obvious reasons.

I have a good relationship with my distributor(s).
The 'fee' system you mention is still used by some, but not that frequent anymore. I never took part in it.
Deals with distributors come in all forms and shapes. From classic distribution to partnerships and everything in between.

Having a good collaboration going on with your distributor is crucial for a label's potential. It's more than just 'about money'.

[Re-animated Cat]

Very interesting. And of course, I didn't expect you to go into any specifics. Thanks for the info though, and yeah, I can totally appreciate how important the label-distro relationship is.