[4000days]

With out going into too long of a rant.....here's the deal.

I value the opinions of the regulars on this forum as you all buy records, support sales of the physical format, and take your music seriously (as do I). I need your help!

I am seriously considering opening a brand-spanking new retail store.

The short version is that I've always been a musician, managed an indie record store for 10 years, and have a massive personal collection. I went back to school a few years ago to pursue some other interests, and am staring down at PhD programs right now. The more I consider starting a PhD at this point in my life (late 30's), the more I realize that all I've really ever been truly passionate about is records. Sure I like a lot of other things, but vinyl is HUGE part of me - it's in my blood - it's who I AM. The more soul searching I do, the more I feel like I should at least give opening my own shop a try - and if I fail, I head back to school - BUT I DON'T WANT TO FAIL!

So my question to you is this: what do you look for in a record store? What other sorts of things would you buy in a record store? Where do you feel some shops have gone wrong? What is your perfect shop like? From hours of operation to stock to what the store looks like?

As I said, I know the ins and outs of the industry from past experience, but it can't hurt to get some objective opinions on what you folks love about record stores.

Regardless of the overwhelming impact the internet has had on retail, I still think I can offer people an EXPERIENCE that the internet can never match.

I am absolutely dead serious about this. I already know the community I want to open my store in and have been looking at my real estate options, overhead, investments, contacting friends in the industry, etc... But I need some real world feedback and suggestions.

Thanks for reading this and for anything you may have to offer me, from one vinyl junkie to another.

[Re-animated Cat]

Jeez man, that's quite an ambition! I suppose it depends on where you are - how supportive are the locals likely to be? Is there a good music scene in your area?

I'm asking these questions because I think to survive these days, a bricks and mortar store needs to be more than just a record shop. You need to engage with the local music scene, have gig nights in the shop, stock music with a local interest. You also need to cater for the mainstream market (I'm sad to say), so stocking stuff you don't like is a given. The housewife and teen crowds could be your bread and butter. Then you'll have the funds to cater for the more specialist crowds, which is where your passion for obscure music will come into play.

One other important thing - make sure the staff are actually friendly and helpful, unlike many record stores where they're mostly arrogant hipsters.

You'll also need to run a mail-order site on the side, of course, to shift some of the more unique/specialist stock. Just my initial thoughts

[4000days]

Thanks for your input! I live about an hour outside of NYC. The town I'm looking at has seen a massive revitalization, and is home to a very artistic community. It is a lot of ambition, but you only live once, right?

And I totally agree - who's standing behind the counter can make or break a business. I was the face of the shop I used to run as the owner has a reputation as being a bit of a miser. Great guy to me, total asshole to many others, which is why I think he's struggling right now.

The night gigs is something I've thought about. I remember one of my favorite shops as a kid had a little stage at the back of the store.

Thanks again! This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for! And when and if this goes down, you all will be the first to know!

[Re-animated Cat]

You're welcome. If there's a good art scene near you, then I'd think about trying to engage with other arts too, not just music. Anything that brings people into the store, I guess.

One problem with vinyl these days though - a lot of labels are putting out limited colourways/editions that are sold directly from the label (for obvious reasons). These editions never make it into stores and since a lot of people (its seems new vinyl buyers in particular) are only interested in the limited versions, that might pose a big problem. The price difference between your store and online is another major factor. Somehow you need to make it worth people's while to buy from your store instead of online. I have no idea how, but I think that's the key. Maybe hassle artists for signed editions, have in-store release parties (since you're near NYC I'm sure there's no shortage of bands) and other bonuses that come with the records. It's gonna be tough, man, that's for sure.

[deathwaltz]

I'd be happy to give you advice I have worked in and run record stores for 20 years or more I set Rough Trade East up and would be happy to give you some pointers on making a destination store.
Good stores are thriving.
Funny my girlfriend has been telling me I should set up a small coffee bar / record store specialising in soundtracks and related gear and the more I think about it the more I wanna do it.

[Re-animated Cat]

"Destination store" - yeah, that sums it up. That's what it needs to be, more than just a shop.

And if Spencer sets up a specialist store here in London, then he may as well have my credit card and pin

[4000days]

Destination store is exactly what I meant when I mentioned wanting to give customers an experience - you guys know exactly what I'm talking about! Will have more time to discuss this stuff tomorrow - it's 9pm and I'm in my research lab. Would much rather be preparing to close my shop for the night. I will definitely hit you up for advice Spencer! Thanks fellas. Back to my mental rotation research.....

[monsterworship]

Black gold in brooklyn has a pretty great concept: everything i love in one tiny store:, record store / coffee bar / antique /oddities/occult shop

[hncreature]

My favorite thing about a record store hands down is a turntable to listen to the used vinyl on - One store here in San Diego has one...and other doesn't - I would be spending more money on Lps that I don't have to take a chance on

[ninjaqutie]

Let me tell you what I like about my shops and then tell you what I wish my shops are missing out on (that other shops have that I have visited). Some of these are going to be common knowledge and well... really basic here from a store selling point.

Both of my local shops are fairly intimate. They are small, but by intimate I mean they know my name and shopping preferences. When I go in they not only greet me by name, but they actually tell ME what they have in stock that they think I will like. They are willing to hold items for me until I get into the shop (sometimes for well over a week, but this may be a privilege I have earned by having built up a GREAT rapport with them).

Both shops keep social networks constantly updated with photos or status updates with new arrivals or interesting LP's or rares that may be of interest. One shop actually procures their records from out west and ships them back east. So he will take videos of what will be coming our way. I like that. Both shops are also highly organized (one shop more than the other). I like that they are done alphabetically and than major bands within that letter have their own section. So, maybe AC/DC deserves a spot in the A section, but The Animals may not. I also think a good, quality, used section is important. One of my shops has a rather large used section and the other has a much larger new section. I find myself frequenting the one with the larger used section more often than the new one. Not to say that new LP's aren't of use, but I feel that there is a certain kind of market to be had in used and I think that maybe that is something you will have to figure out on your own. By having used, you will bring in a certain type of crowd than if you have mostly new. The mostly new store has more of an indie/college vibe, while the mostly used with a growing new selection kind of has a "all walks of life" vibe.

While both stores do have the occasional sale or event, I feel like that is where they are missing out. So many record stores do things better in this area. For instance, Monster record has "Vinyl Saturday" the first saturday of the month. You can go in and get discounted vinyl. Awesome way to bring in business. They also do a weekly newsletter that has all the releases (both vinyl and CD) and there is a coupon at the bottom you can use for a discount (usually for dvd's and cd's). Monster also always has release parties for new vinyl (free pizza and beer anyone!?!). Personally, I am a huge event person. Release parties are something I would be into. It is a great way to feel out an LP you are questioning and as a business, it also gets people in to buy stuff!!

Another thing I love that Monster does is the Record Expo. Wow! I want to go to this SOOOO bad. What a great way to bring together the vinyl community, as well as numerous businesses. A wider variety of vinyl is a bigger chance of finding what I want and the fact that Monster hosts it is a great thing. It just brings more people their way.

To go off of what was mentioned above, I love the turntable idea. Have a table and a headset. There are tons of records that I am curious about, but unless I have an inkling I like the artist (or I trust the person who recommended them), or they are cheap, I am not going to take the risk. Have a TT and a headset so I can take a preview and I will be more apt to buy them. My local store has thrown records on for me to listen to on occasion. I found this record that was supposedly made of a real exorcism. It started off with this weird psych music and then into 70's disco music and after about 10 minutes went into what sounded like exorcism rights. Although it would have been a neat record to add to my collection, I just didn't see spending $25 to get it. If I didn't listen to it first, I would have been miffed. LOL. We all stood there confused when we first put it on. We only took it off when another customer came into the store (party pooper).

Anyway, I think you really have to feel out what is best for your neighborhood and what clientele you want to draw. What I like may not be what you want for your store. I am more of a sale/event, crate digger, content to spend all day in the store kind of person. I can literally spend hours in a record store if I have the time (and I go without my husband- he can't stand to stay that long). I frequently spend at least $100 or more every time I go and I go a couple times a month.

Best of luck in your future endeavors!

[4000days]

thank you thank you thank you for your input!

@hncreature - I will definitely have listening stations - they without a doubt increase sales potential and I'm glad you feel so strongly about it and see it as a significant difference between 2 shops. I have actually thought of having a handful of listening "booths", where people can check out used titles they are interested in. I figure I can also put titles on the wall of each booth, and maybe have different themes, which can be switched out whenever - like a jazz booth, blues booth, soundtrack booth, etc., highlighting good new arrivals in whatever category.

@monsterworship - I have never heard of Black Gold, but have actually considered that EXACT sort of spin on the "traditional" record store. I am really into antiques - particularly old medical/veterinary/halloween etc., as well as taxidermy. I've considered making that a part of my business model. Not only would it give the shop more personality, but if and when the vinyl resurgence starts to turn downhill(again), I'll have something to keep people coming into the shop. I also collect kitschy shit/toys from the 70's and 80's, which I can work into the shop. I've thought about having a cafe, but the area I'm looking at is saturated with them, and I don't know shit about food services. It would also require more upstart money, permits, etc. At the same time - I don't want to spread myself too thin. But I am seriously thinking about keeping a "dark" vibe, while not being too dark as to frighten "normal people" away.

@ninja - it's all about getting to know your customers and catering parts of your inventory directly to them. That's one thing a retail store can do that the internet can't - welcome a customer with a smile and recommend something they might actually want (as opposed to a programmed "customers who bought Alice Cooper also bought......insert irrelevant band here"). I haven't really ever utilized social networking for business, but I suppose I should embrace it. Personally, I'm kind of over facebook - but I suppose for a growing business it's kind of a must. And I don't even understand twitter..... But you're right and I should probably learn - it certainly can't hurt, and is probably the single best way to alert customers of new arrivals/events etc.

The shop I used to run had an owner behind the scenes who made all the "money" decisions, which was frustrating and part of the reason I'm excited to be able to this on my own. He was completely against "sales" of any sort, which I think was a contributing factor to his business taking a turn for the worst. I most definitely need to have weekly sales/deals - maybe not on everything, but a little here, a little there. I am fortunate that it's such an artsy community - I think events would really go over well and allow me to integrate myself into the existing fabric of the area.

I sincerely appreciate all the input coming my way! I spent the weekend in the community, talking to shop owners and people on the street. I really think this is going to happen.

[venus sans fur]

Rotate This! in Toronto. Best in the world.

[ninjaqutie]

I hope for the best. If you are in an artsy area, I think you could do a lot and you would be well received. My one store even has some acoustic bands come play on their front porch sometimes! I really dig that! Instagram is also a really cool thing to do. You can post a "Now spinning" pic at your shop, pics of some random vinyl that you just got in, pics of something you just like, etc. People like photos. Plus it is really easy to utilize and you can hashtag things (DW, WW, etc) and you don't have to interface with lots of other people if you don't want to. Or you can follow people if you want (like previous mention things above (DW, WW, OWS, etc).

[freshoj]

This one is kind of obvious, but keep the prices low. If you can compete even just a little bit with the online prices, you should be able to keep 'em coming back for more.

A great used section is HUGE to me, but sounds like a lot more work than a great new section. Try and beef up the non-rock sections (reggae, soundtracks, jazz, electronic, etc). I imagine this is what a lot of the true vinyl junkies will be looking for, as opposed to the looky-loos!

Consider asking your customers what you should stock - i.e. what didn't they find, etc. Being open to special orders is cool, but in the days of internet ordering, not sure that will get 'em in the doors like being able to browse records of interest to them.

Maybe sell turntables and other vinyl gear?

Cover the walls with awesome records for sale - and rotate them regularly. My local shop fails at this. I can't tell you how many records I've pulled off walls to buy - such a great way to get the customers' eyes on the merchandise. Speaking of rotating stock, if you have a used section, be sure you can keep it fresh - even if that means holding back some gems or rotate out some stuff periodically. Nothing worse than looking at the same records every time you go to a shop. I guess the same holds true for new stuff too, but that should be easier to keep fresh without having to hide anything in the back.

ok, I could go all night... best of luck 4000days - live the dream!

[hncreature]

@4000days - Once again the listening opportunity got me three more Lps from Rhino in Clairemont CA that if I didn't hear I would have passed on - Good luck with everything!

[reelybored]

@4000days whereabouts are you? Im also about an hour from NYC.

[vinyljunkie]

Me too -- I'm on Staten Island -- where do you plan on opening this store???

[unpopular_poet]

I really think that Permanent Records here in Chicago and LA are great models -- The owners started out in Chicago and expanded to LA -- Both stores are amazing and a total pleasure to just hang out it -- The employees are super helpful and friendly and never have that judgmental attitude that so many other record store employees suffer from in Chicago. Plus Permanent always has awesome prices and awesome in store performances -- plus they now have a label that releases some really cool records. Not to mention that Ty Segall works at Permanent LA sometimes...how fucking cool is that? Enough gushing though. I think the perfect store is pretty much what has been described here -- a place where people hang out -- and buy records -- I used to spend hours at my local record shop growing up -- we would chat up the girls working, smoke cigs and dig through 7"s and bootlegs. It was a 2-3 days a week obsession. Plus we spent an ungodly amount of money. I wish you only the best of luck in this endeavor -- I wish I could do the same. I guess the last thing that I would say would be that if it is your store, you have to be ready to sell anything and say thank you -- Good luck! Dan

[DrRhythm]

I spent several years in the late '80s working at a well known second hand records emporium where the general company policy was that the customer is always, without fail, wrong and cannot be trusted. While I wouldn't necessarily recommend this policy, it was actually quite refreshing at the time for those of us that had experienced the retail environment elsewhere!!

[4000days]

I'm in the Hudson Valley, made this reply private as I think there might be prying eyes on me here and I want to keep the location on the down low. Long story, but true.

[4000days]

I went to Permanent in Chicago last summer - it was a great shop! I definitely want a place where people can hang out - but I want them buying shit before they leave! A friend of mine used to have a shop near me, and his place became more of a lounge than a store - it's no wonder he had to close. And however hysterical it is to have the "fuck the customers" attitude (and anyone who's worked in retail can sympathize), that's hardly a practical model at this point. In the 80's it could have actually worked, all joking aside, but not now. I want to have store where judgement isn't cast on customers regardless of how shitty I may think their taste in music is. One thing I learned when I worked those 10 years at someone else's store is that I'm just happy to see people passionate about what they listen to - whatever it may be.

[4000days]

no idea why my replies are crazy, tried to private reply reelybored and vinyljunkie, only managed to get one of the two; and then my other reply posted up 2 slots....?

edit:and now we're back to normal. okey dokey.

[monsterworship]

Permanent is a great store, found a few gems there last fall, of course when I am in Chicago I got to hit up all of the Reckless locations.

[reelybored]

@4000days How do i read a private reply?

[4000days]

Can you read this? This is what I posted above:
I’m in the Hudson Valley, made this reply private as I think there might be prying eyes on me here and I want to keep the location on the down low. Long story, but true.