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I need advice on whether I'm completely in the wrong regarding a Discogs dispute. I sent a tape (Surf Nazis Must Die) to Spain, but a months later I found it returned in my mail box. I wrote the buyer:

Me: I just had this returned from Spain. Iit says "No retirado". Could you give me your email so I can send pictures and you can check?

So I understand that the adress is correct? You should maybe complain at your post office and show them the pictures.

I can of course send it again if you pay for the shipping. Is there maybe another address I should send it to?

Him:
I called the post office guys...
I don't have the shipping number/code, so I could'nt get any further.
If you give me the details, I'll call back them and see what happened, but any case,
I didn't get any notification from them to pick the package at the post office...
they said sender has the responsability over the shipping to arrive...if it's certificate maybe
you can complain to your post office.
Anyway, send me the shipping details and I'll keep moving on.

Me: There isn't any shipping number since you did not request to have it sent registered (which would have been more expensive). All the details are in the pictures I sent you. I used the exact address you provided. As you can see, it made it's way to Spain and was then returned. It departed Denmark on February 18 (as the stamps show), so everything is good on my end.

I'll be happy to resend it if you pay the €4 for shipping. I'll even pay for the extra padded envelope myself.

Him: I always certificate when I sell stuff, the price difference is not that much and I can have a tracking and check stuff like this.
If you go to your post office, maybe you can have some info about the shipping and I can deal with the spanish guys.
without a tracking, they can't reach the history of the shipping, what was done, when, and why was returned...
If I can get a free shipping again because of the mistake, because I absolutely tell there where no papers of delivery in my mail box, it's the best we can take.
BUT
In case we have to send the cassette again, I offer you to share shipping costs. It's not your fault that no notification was left at home, but it's not mine too, do you agree?
I'm sorry to tell but I'm not gonna pay all myself a new shipping, even more becase, with law in hand the sender has the responsability for the package to arribe safely at the buyer's home.
Well tell me what to do, but any of the case I'm not paying the whole shipping, I hope you understand.

I am considering the following response but wanted you guys opinions first: I refer to my shipping terms: "Vinyl and tapes are based on actual shipping costs (feel free to inquire before buying... Insurance/tracked is an extra € 10"). You did not request this Insurance/tracked. I have, however, proof that the package left Denmark and made it to Spain (via the pictures I sent you). What happens once it arrives at the Spanish postal service is out of my hands. Had the responsibility been with the Danish postal service, I would gladly have paid all costs to have it shipped again.

Personally I'd say neither of you are truly at fault. I think splitting the shipping cost is a fair solution.

Hello Rasmus,
First off, I think you didn't do anything wrong. You are correct in everything you wrote to the guy in Spain.
I do understand his point of view, as he didn't do anything wrong either. However, his argument about the registered shipping is not valid, because you clearly stated your terms on discogs.

In the end it is the post office that didn't deliver. This is a scenario that can happen when shipping stuff (and especially to a country like Spain).
If I was you I would take your loss and split the new shipping costs between the both of you. Or you pay the 4 euro's regular shipping and he the added costs for tracking. Or something like that...
Is it worth it to make this into a dispute that can possibly create negative feedback on your discogs profile plus hassle from a potential paypal claim?

Just my two cents…

Thanks a lot guys. Yeah, I'd rather not risk my 100% perfect seller rating...

I'd take your €4 lesson about shipping to Spain and keep the feedback rating...

It looks like I will learn a €100 lesson not to ever trust the Poste Italiane with a shipment.

What are the problem countries? Spain, Poste Italiane in Italy, Brazil is not recommended, and I've heard Greece has issues.

Those + Russia are risky.

@texas, I know the bad reputation of italian's mail service but trust me, it depends on how things were shipped...there are so many different options to ship from Italy to all over the world, if people looks only to spend less money the service will not be the best...

I've had such a bad experience on Discogs recently.

I gave someone 'neutral' feedback because they sold me a record as NM but in reality it was VG. Ok, I did say in the comments "lazy seller didn't check the condition before posting" which was a bit harsh, but I was disappointed.

In hindsight I should have contacted him to say the record wasn't as advertised, but I couldn't be bothered with the hassle.

He gave me a straight 'negative' for not communicating & I haven't had any orders or made any sales since...

He won't reverse it either following communication with him, proper bully tactics. I didn't give him a negative, so it doesn't even affect his feedback.

Really annoyed, partly with myself, but mainly with him!

Always choose the route with positive feedback.

People can't man up & take a tiny criticism when they mess up. I've realised this now.

I check everything meticulously before I send it out.

I am not sure what options there are for Italy.

Unregistered Poste Italiane seems the worst, one box took 6 weeks and the second just never showed up.

Registered Poste Italiane was about the same-- one box came in 5 weeks, the other is still missing at 6-7 weeks and the status was never changed to "sent to destination country" on the Poste Italiane website, so who knows what happened to it.

UPS seems to be the best, the last two UPS boxes from Italy to Texas both arrived in 3 days.

It really is good procedure to contact the seller first if there is any issue. I had a similar issue recently with a record I bought being misgraded and we negotiated for a partial refund. If they are uncooperative, then you're able to say you've done your due diligence and then you can leave negative feedback, if necessary. Just my $0.02.

hey peek, what's your discogs ID?

andypeek I don't really sell much anyway, but I've had a constant stream of orders til this happened...

well good luck, if you pop up in my feed and have something i want, i'll be happy to drop you an order.

some people are nuts

Cheers @Hatter313 I did think he'd take it constructively!

I have ordered from this guy before too, repeat business & there is no mercy. Customer is definitely not always right on Discogs.....

@toosoonjunior very true, it was a 'heat of the moment' thing. I didn't want to mess up his feedback/f-up his business, hence neutral. My comments were a bit off hand, not remotely nasty & I apologised to him & tried to get the neutral removed. I don't think Discogs will change it tho...

It's frustrating when your excited to get something & it's so far from what's been advertised.

Must think first...

I am currently having my first discogs problem. I had bought from this seller before and the jacket was a bit more damaged than expected but it wasn't too bad. I bought another record from them and received it and it looked good but I didn't play it as I had a pile of records to listen to. I then got an email about feedback so gave them good feedback.
I then went to play the record and half of it is shaped like a dish. I told them this and they said that they didn't actually recall looking at the record before sending it and asked if it was unplayable. I said one side played alright (the curved down side played with a bit of background noise but made the needle go up and down) but the other side was completely unplayable. Since then I have heard nothing from them.
I originally asked for a partial refund but am now asking for a full refund. I have sent them a few messages now. I also can't seem to change my feedback. Is this possible? What else could I do?

@Rasmus, I feel your pain.

Unfortunately, I think people generally expect the sellers to take too much responsibility for postal mishaps. (and I don't mean poorly packed items or items misaddressed, etc).

But, it does seem to be a pervasive expectation. So, to save ourselves some stress, it is probably easier to concede and take the loss. but, when I first read this, I definitely took it as his responsibility to make sure he can receive the package - and not sure I believe the complete lack of any notification. but hey, it could be true and again, it is easier to just concede a loss than to start fighting.

My own tail of woe:
I recently sent a $60 NM record set well packed to France (which cost $27 to ship) and it arrived with a crushed corner. The buyer and I had a tough time trying to figure out what was a fair agreement. In the end, I gave him $15 - but by then we both had sour tastes in our mouths. I was out $15 and he had a damaged cover when he bought a NM cover. Everybody lost and no feedback was left.

I also took the time to figure out that between discogs and paypal, I had only really received $51.50 of the $60 - which was pretty eye opening. Luckily, when I refunded the $15, they both partially refunded some fees too.

blah blah tl;dr

We ended up splitting the €4 shipping costs (me actually paying a little more since I don't include the cost of the padded envelope in the shipping costs). Now I just hope this one makes it all the way :/

Peek-a-boo: I also think that you should always contact the seller.

To avoid these sorts of things, I always include this letter in my orders:


Thanks for the order!

I hope you are happy with your purchase –
if not, please let me know.

I hope you will leave some positive feedback
on Discogs


Kind regards

Rasmus Drews (chandler75)

Sometimes a NM will be a Fine copy to others. And damages can happen in transit. Communication should always be the first step

@peek-a-boo I know how that feels!

True @Rasmus I will put this onto my orders from now on.

Discogs removed his negative comments. They obviously saw how down right nasty this guy is to people who don't lick his bum.

Well it's good to know that discogs is attentive in monitoring these sorts of disputes, as your rating on there is so correlative to your success. I would hope that, in a similar circumstance, I could also have luck in having a negative rating waived. The rating system is the greatest advantage and greatest disadvantage for the online record store.